WebFont

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by SymbioticDesign
See also Webbing by TCWhite.

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The designer of this FontStruction has chosen not to make it available for download from this website by choosing an “All Rights Reserved" license.

Please respect their decision and desist from requesting license changes in the comments.

If you would like to use the FontStruction for a specific project, you may be able to contact the designer directly about obtaining a license.

WebFont is SIL Open Font License freeware (version 1.0).  If you like it for a website, you can use it as a web font.  You can clone it, download it, whatever. Hopefully, if you use it as a web font, you will add a link to my site, Font-Journal (https://www.Font-Journal.com), in the credits of your website or blog (professional sites & blogs give credit for the resources used that aren't theirs), if you use it or distribute it, but that is not required.

You can edit, modify, append or do whatever you need to do with this font, including using it commercially or in creating your own art/graphic works, even a new version of the font as long as all further redistributed derivatives use a new reserved font name and remain under the same "SIL Open Font License".

This is a freeware font, it should never be sold, unless it is included as bonus freeware part of a paid collection.  WebFont is FREE.  

Supports a large latin character set (lots of latin), with extras like the Copyright, Trademark, Tel: symbols, currency signs and an assortment of little Dingbats.  I try to use Dingbats for the UI when I design websites, so I included a few without weighing the font down too much, it still loads quickly.  Loading a vector based font for UI stuff is a lot easier and quicker than loading graphic files.

Any questions, character requests?  Go ahead and ask! 

If you see anything that needs to be addressed, be sure to shout out at me, I'll see if I can fix stuff. - Doug Peters, Symbiotic Design
https://Dougs.Work  -  https://Doug-Peters.com  -  https://Salamander.US
https://SymbioticDesign.com  -  https://Worthful.com  -  https://Worthful.net

Info: Created on 4th December 2016 . Last edited on Sun, 27th January.
License Open Font License
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96 Comments

I had been working on a different font that I would release as a CC0 web font, but that one had quite a few more characters on it.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work with this new improved editor.  So, I am going to try to tackle the project all over again.  But of course. I want to have a more complete font before I release it.  This is just to get ideas and feedback, for now.  Currently, just basic latin characters, but I want to include all the normal characters one might need in a webfont, like bullets and arrowheads, currency symbols, important foreign characters so that it offers at least some unified character table support, and a few extras like icons of a shopping cart, credit card symbols, and important UI symbols.  Of course, I also have to add the Copyright, Trademark, Registered Trademark, Service Mark and Tele symbols.  At the same time, I don't want to include too much, I want the character set to be full featured, but lean overall so that it will load fast on websites.

This, of course, just means there is lots more work to do, but thought I might give people that glimpse and get any feedback I can use.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 9th January 2017

Finally figured out how to add a description.  Cool.  ;)

Comment by SymbioticDesign 25th January 2017

This looks good, easy to read. I like the 'hint of goth': dark with the occasional beak and slanted ends of verticals.  The dingbats are a pleasant addition (can you add a happy smiley?  °◡° )

Comment by Aeolien 25th January 2017

@Aeolien... Sure.  I added a happy face in outline and solid, and an outline sad face.  I don't know where the 'meh' face is hiding.  Also added TM, SM, TEL, and a variety of arrow style bullets and such.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 25th January 2017

< nice :)

Comment by Aeolien 25th January 2017

Thanks, @Aeolien.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 26th January 2017

@meek... Please see the 'sample' screen grab attached.  I'm getting the same error message with multiple tries. 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 2nd February 2017

@SymbioticDesign It installs on my system. I'll have a closer look in the next few days.

Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 2nd February 2017

OK, thanks.  I did just try it again and I got the same message.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 2nd February 2017

Just tried to install it again.  Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit with Service Pack 1, powered by Intel Core i3 M350 @ 2.27GHz/2.27GHz and 4GB RAM (shared video memory).  Windows is activated.

All my other font archives seem to be installing just fine, it is only this one that I have had trouble with, so far.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 9th February 2017

Ah. I thought I’d fixed this one. I did identify a problem. I'll take another look when I get a chance.

Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 9th February 2017

Still doesn't install.

Which is primarily why I haven't been here lately, I have 2 fonts that refuse to install, and if I can't make fonts that I can use, it's pointless to try.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd February 2017

Well, I finally got it to install on my laptop, so I'm publishing it, again.  Before it was under the Creative Commons license.  Now it's the SIL OFL, which for a web font, it probably should be.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018

I don't really remember how done this is, or not, so if you see anything that needs attention, let me know.  I wanted to make a web font a long time ago, but it wouldn't install on my laptop then (even though it apparently installed for everyone else).  But, as I could not see it, I unpublished it.  

Well, now I have a new laptop, it installs, and so I hope it will for everyone else, too.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018
Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018

Clean work, with a suble personal touch. ('$&' might be smaller to match '@'?)

• The font description (all your comment on top, as Html) is included in the TTFs (at least in this format); I did not check about the online version (Google Fonts under OFL license), but if an archived information does not exist, perhaps it can be linked somewhere (already or in the future).

• You main website is quite interesting to me as a repository. (I added it to my to-do list pertaining to e.g. low-res pixel and dot-based fonts.)

Comment by dpla 22nd March 2018

I don't think that Google has it, yet.  I'd kind of be surprised if they added it to their fonts.  I don't think that an SIL OFL license makes it automatically included, so I am guessing the "Contribute to Google Fonts" button wouldn't be ghosted, and as I had never been able to use it, it probably would need to meet with some sort of approval, first.

Thanks for your comments.  I have been looking at it and was actually thinking about making the: at, solidus, backslash, vertical, percent, number, plus, minus and equals signs needed to be thicker.  And maybe the double quote sign is a little too corny?

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018

> The font description (all your comment on top, as Html) is included in the TTFs (at least in this format);

I didn't realize that.  I always wanted it included as text in the distribution archive.  Probably too heavy for a TTF.  I'll have to learn more about this.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018

• I didn't realize you provided many dingbats, cool!(*)

• The type formats evolve; new features can be added. Having a web font stored only online (we all had issues with them because of the limited support), or duplicated locally in a transient way (e.g. browser-cached or OS temp files), cannot help the creators maintain their full control over their creation, indeed, provided they did not disclaim their right, license-wise. Besides, the local laws differ in this field of softwares (so, we never know -or too late-, any typeface could be distributed legally without our consent, after we shared it in a specific and wrongly restrictive way), just because all what we put online can be misused. Until one can check the font info(**) easily and securely, the collection of web fonts will be rather poor, in quantity and quality, IMHO. (Both criteria sound like proprietary-based or monetary-geared limitations to me; getting more audience from the related online services is the main benefit I can see, while one drawback would be the filter based on download counts: less variety eventually, which is already the case in too many similar multipurpose typefaces). The users decide in the end. For instance, with too many neutral styles, I foresee a will for more customization (thus more available info about the designers etc.)… Really again, I don't know much about this (deceptively) dematerialized format Google (and others) kindly offers; all I know is the unfeasibility (in the long term, for the sake of the continuous IT progress) to keep up deleting the legitimate reward any creator needs. In your case, the archive you want. A short comparison in another art: music files exist with and without information; if the cover image, the composer, the original title etc. are missing (or difficult to find), it has to do with some piracy, and this impacts the creation. Well, even a bound-to-be-free font like yours would be harmed from this absence or consent. [I'll resume this topic if you need…]

* The Basic Latin symbols: ah, now I see this set of lighter glyphs. Yes, it does not quite fit a unique font weight. (But this does not look serious to me, thanks to your correctly bolder punctuations.)

** In 2013 a FS member reminded me of BabelMap, to get the full font info (not very easily and not on any system)… As said, this feature should be available directly in the hosting software (e.g. via Parameters or Cache > Files > Media > Fonts > Info, even contextually via an extra option that would mimic the image clicling)… Perhaps you can edit your own font descrition that the FonstStructor added in Html, by using a (free) tool like FontForge (if you prefer a plaintext info, ASCII art, hidden Base64 image, 8K video^^…)?

Comment by dpla 22nd March 2018

How do you find that info, @dpla?
I made the & smaller but made some of that skinny stuff thicker.  Hopefully, it works better together, now.  I'll remake the graphic preview image with the changes.  

Strange thing, though... when I typed spaces in the preview section of Fonstruct, I saw returns.  But not until I had started backspacing to correct what I had typed.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd March 2018

BabelMap > Menu > Fonts > Font Analysis Utility (F7) > Font Info > Font description.

IDK about this issue (temporary or not, browser-dependent or not), yet…

Comment by dpla 22nd March 2018

• (Forgot this reply): well, your previous " looked fine alone with its angular style. Now that you have added ‘ ’ “ ” the same way, the expected shape for the latter four would fit better with the new and correct (even) style of your straight quotation mark… although this is rather nitpicking (ditto with the absent but more superfluous ‚ ‛ „ ‟ ′ ″ ‴).
 

Comment by dpla 22nd March 2018

Thanks, dpla... 
I used BabelMap before, but have moved to a new laptop and forgot all about it.  But, I never knew about the Font Info > Font Description feature.

Yeah, the other issue would be for @meek.

Oh, I should mention that the background I am using in the preview sample graphics use a metalic background available for free at Graphic Flip, it just requires an attribution to use. ;)

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd March 2018

Argh. The Lime green "WebFont" sitting on the side didn't update (the e is wrong).  BB

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd March 2018

If I took the u and rotated it twice, would that make a better n

Hmmm... I'm going to try that.

Whoops.  I went into the editor, I changed the n, and then it told me that there was a newer version (by 47 seconds).  So whoa... my only options were to continue or read something.  I wanted to make sure I didn't corrupt the font, so I exited the web page altogether, thinking that I only needed to fix that one thing on the n, anyway.  

When reloading the Fonstructions page to enter the editor and edit the n though, it was already saved with the new style n.  

I better take a break.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd March 2018

Yeah, you're right.  Very definitely.  I don't know if the tabs should be sticking up on the m & n, but if I'm going to keep them like that I should probably add one to the r, eh?  I think it helps with the angular goth cuts on the lowercase letters. Then knock-out all those ` ' " ; punctuations.

But, I'm going to take a break, I have another logo project I'm working that needs more focus at the moment.

Thanks and take care!

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd March 2018

Your latest changes improve this font a lot^^

Comment by dpla 23rd March 2018

Still working on it.  I noticed the British pound sign was terrible.  I have lots to do.  I think I know why the "Contribute to Google Fonts" is ghosted, now.  I am guessing there is already a font with such a generic name.  So I will probably just keep working on it and try to get it right and create something good, but when I'ts ready I'll come up with a new name that isn't used and clone it, add a few characters and see what happens.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd March 2018

The reason why it is grayed out is because it is still missing some required glyphs...

Comment by anonymous-1520403 23rd March 2018

Oh. Cool. I'll have to check out which ones they want.  But first, I'll worry about fixing it.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 24th March 2018

Well, you can easily find them in the Google Fonts Basic Character Set...

Comment by anonymous-1520403 24th March 2018

OK, cool.  I only have a couple characters of the Latin Supplement left.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 24th March 2018

Dang it. The block substitution is happening again.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 27th March 2018

I do not see the "Google Fonts Basic" character set anywhere in Fontstructor.  Perhaps because I started this font so long ago I don't get to see it?  It's just getting too dang hard to find the missing glyphs I need in order to fill that basic character set. 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 27th March 2018

You'll find it when you change the licence to "Open Font Licence". That inserts the button "Contribute to Google Fonts" to the end of the line of buttons under the font preview.

Comment by Aeolien 27th March 2018

When you have set the licence this inserts automatically the Google Fonts Basic set of glyphs at the bottom of the 'language choices' in the basic (not unicode) setting. When you chose this you'll automatically see only the glyphs that Google Fonts requires.

Comment by Aeolien 27th March 2018

It's been "Open Font License".  What, they can't be unicode?  I need unicode.  Darn.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 27th March 2018

OK, I guess I can always turn unicode on, later.  I guess its kind of ready to submit to Google Fonts.  But what do you think?  Should I make all the dots the same size (like in the diaeresis, make them the same size as the periods)?  Did I get carried away with the goth cuts?  Should I leave off the little caps on the smaller case r, p, m, n?  Whattaya think?  ;)  & Thanks for your input in advance!

Comment by SymbioticDesign 27th March 2018

your t with a stroke has one stroke, not two

Comment by anonymous-1520403 27th March 2018

I meant  that you don't turn on unicode but stay in the usual basic glyph band to see Google Fonts Basic in the language panel. Google Fonts Basic option seems unavailable in unicode mode. But as for all our fonts the glyphs made are available on the unicode glyph band.

Comment by Aeolien 27th March 2018

Good catch, @Se7enty-Se7en. Yup, I missed the stroke on the small t.  Thanks!

Comment by SymbioticDesign 27th March 2018

I discovered a few minor issues to fix, I want to address them, and then I'll try to submit it.  ;)  Thanks for the help, everyone!

Comment by SymbioticDesign 28th March 2018

You're zelcome

Comment by anonymous-1520403 28th March 2018

OK, gonna submit it to Google Fonts for consideration.  I hope it makes it in.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 29th March 2018

You haven't finished Latin-B yet...

Comment by anonymous-1520403 29th March 2018

That's no lie.  I got in a struggle with an old netbook, and I am losing (so far), although I did win a battle with my new Dell, which allows me the extra time (since I am no longer trying to keep my old laptop working and updated).  Plus, I am done with the logo work I did when I was doing this recently and need to find new work (or a new job).  It would be wonderful if my career was creating fonts (getting paid for making fonts and typefaces), but sadly it's not.  Spare time, even though I love doing this, is at a premium right now.  I do hope to keep updating it, of course, but I also have other font projects I want to tackle, too,  If it makes it into Google Fonts, I will be able to dedicate more time to this project, but we will have to see how that goes.  I know there are fonts awaiting Google Fonts catalog approval for a very long time.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 30th March 2018

Hi guys...

I have been sidelined.  I have an extra extraordinary tooth ache.  I just want to die.  I'm popping pain pills and nothing is happening.  My jaw is swollen up on the left side, my head pounding.  I will try to get back to this later.  I want to addess the issues that were brought up on GitHub, but I can't even think at the moment.  Better yet, Jesus, please take me?

Comment by SymbioticDesign 17th April 2018

Wow that's rough, hope you feel better soon! 

Comment by zephram 17th April 2018

I've updated the 0 & the x.  Apparently, they have concerns about the k, the R and the s, but for me the B, R, K and k are all related, done in the exact same style, except the k has a shorter upper arm than the K, and the small k has goth cuts at the end of the upper ascenders (because it's lower case).  Even the S complies to the same styling used in the B, R, K & k, but it's top loop is more centered because it's supposed to be a curvy S and shouldn't look like it is falling backward (but the others don't look like they are falling backward because they have strong backs).  So, the s follows that very same styling as the S had. 

Therefore, I am figuring that it might not make it into Google Fonts.  But, the 0 and the x did need to be fixed.  I've updated the archive on my font repository website, too.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 21st April 2018

I wouldn't download it right now.  I'm trying to solve a problem.  Hopefully I can make the right bricks, but still experimenting with that puzzle. 

Maybe I should make it private while I am working on it? 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd May 2018

This is getting better. :) Latin B: you have lowercase schwa in the wrong place—it's near the end of the block. 018F is the capital form.

Comment by TCWhite 22nd May 2018

Very early comment: I don't know where the 'meh' face is hiding. I't's in extended pictographs, which you cannot access here, i.e., because it is outside the BMP (Basic Multilingual Plane). I also add quite a few more glyphs outside the BMP, such as the raised MC and MD, which are the Canadian forms for TM, SM, et ceterea.

Concerning k: the issue may be due to the fact that the top leg is above the x-height? It throws off the balance with the remainder of the lc.

Latin B again: check out my latest font, Gowa for more accurate designs. :) Or even Khnum or Hjet. Most people, having no idea about said characters, simply design them according to the Unicode images, which, for the most part, are wrong. They even state this in the Unicode guide book. Also, most people fail to research the languages that use these characters. All information about these extra Latin glyphs is on the SIL website.

—Namaste

Comment by TCWhite 22nd May 2018

P.S.: Yes, you should make all the dots harmonize; the daeiresis should be the same as the regular dot on i—the same height, that is. This also applies to the dot beneath, et cetera.

Comment by TCWhite 22nd May 2018

I found a ton of stray bricks on the 2...

Comment by anonymous-1520403 22nd May 2018

Wow, thanks for all the comments, TCWhite.  Yes, I am trying to make bricks to solve an issue, I need a way to angle differently, and a slow curve is actually what I need, but that's the real thing  I am always hitting my head on.  I'm trying to fix some issues, but the block puzzle is unnerving me, so then I take a break and go to a different font. 

Hey there, Se7enty-Se7en, yup, I am trying to figure what the heck I can do about the 2, trying to build bricks with a different angle so I can make it work and still keep it angular.  But I needed a break.

Should I make a font private when I'm working on it even if someone can clone it and fix it themselves if they really want to? 

I'm not really worried about being embarrassed, I have the Font-Journal where I have my official font releases.  Anything here can be "in development".

Comment by SymbioticDesign 23rd May 2018

@TCWhite... Namaste, I was looking all over the SIL website for some sort of reference to the multilingual glyphs and couldn't find it.  I'll keep looking, but that is a design resource I really would like to see, so share the link if you have it. 

I am unsure what the raised MC & MD are, as I am unfamiliar with that symbol, but I'm going to check out your font to see what you were talking about. 

I also need to add an S with a Celia, for the Polish (at least, I think it's a Celia they add to the S).

I couldn't figure out what you meant by the k leg being above the x-height.  You mean the arm that reaches up diagonally?  I'll look at it again.

As far as getting the dots to harmonize, OK, that makes sense.  I'll have to put my crazy period styling in everything else, then.

I think the 'meh face' and other smilies were in the dingbats.  These were done before I knew how to create blocks and delete the extras I didn't need in the composites by clicking on the composite with the shift key down, so I might revisit them. 

Sometimes I forget to save it with the universal characters enabled because I was trying to meet the Google Fonts character requirements guidelines. 

I did just update the font with more kerning, a new 2 and a new 7, but I think the 7 may have missed the mark.  I'll experiment a little more with it.

The idea behind this font as a condensed skinny bold font with gothic style cut ends that is intended to cram in as many letter glyphs as possible on a single line, and yet be perfectly legible, with selected extraneous dingbats and UI glyphs, but I might be able to add more now that I know how to use the custom composite block building better.   And yet, I'm not going to take that too far since I've already got a sans and serif version of this font already sort of done, simply awaiting how I improve this one (and hence how I might improve them).

Comment by SymbioticDesign 3rd June 2018

Concerning the glyph information: it's actually a link on their site at the bottom of the page. The site is called ScriptSource. (scriptsource.org)

At the top, select the characters button, then you can peruse the various Unicode blocks and click on the individual letters for information—if they have it. For example, take Eng, in Latin A. On its page are links to languages that use it, its preferred shape, et cetera. You may have to install a SIL font, however, to see some of the characters, as most fonts lack them. I recommend Gentium Plus, or my font, Dehuti, which you can peruse on SmartFonts: https://smartfonts.com/dehuti.font?style=book

Click on character set above the example text to see the characters.

Here's an example of Dehuti in use:

https://graphicriver.net/item/divas-international-flyer-template/19796447

Polish: yes, it is a cedilla. In Latin A, the only characters that should have the cedilla are S and T. G, K, L, R, and N are named incorrectly, and should have commas, not cedillas. This goes for D as well, in Latin Extended Additional.

Latin B, for example: Latin letter Oi is misnamed, and is actually Gh based off a cursive form.

Concerning harmonization, this is very helpful: https://foundry.myfonts.com/guides/#common-errors

—Namaste

Comment by TCWhite 3rd June 2018

Here's another useful page: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/develop/character-design-standards/diacritics

Also, from the designer of Gentium: http://gaultney.org/jvgtype/wp-content/uploads/ProbsOfDiacDesignLowRes.pdf

Comment by TCWhite 3rd June 2018

This is also highly informative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin-script_letters

Comment by TCWhite 3rd June 2018

The above page leads you here: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?cat_id=TypeDesignPrinciples

Comment by TCWhite 3rd June 2018

—I couldn't figure out what you meant by the k leg being above the x-height.  You mean the arm that reaches up diagonally?  I'll look at it again.—

The x-height is the heighth of the lowercase, and currently your k exceeds, or rather, rises above it. It should be like x. If that helps?

Comment by TCWhite 3rd June 2018

WOW, @TCWhite, what a great wealth of knowledge.  This is a great library, and I am going to save all these links, and even put them online to assist others.  AWESOME!!!  

Thanks so much, Namaste!

I have already been educated a great deal glancing everything over.  I feel like there is an online course in here.  And this is the type of info I have been Googling for forever. 

Yum!  Time to eat up all this delicious info!

Thanks AGAIN!  -DP

Comment by SymbioticDesign 4th June 2018

(Made a quick adjustment to the 7, but I see there are lots of things to change, now, so I won't be putting up a new sample right away.)

Comment by SymbioticDesign 4th June 2018

Fixed the stupid k no one liked (I actually like it better the other way, but I agree, it isn't appropriate with the rest of the somewhat boring characters). 

I am trying to find my kerning cheat sheet, I had it in here on one of the fonts.  I did kern this once, just want to check it. 

I am also looking for the link to the archive submission on GitHub, but I can probably find it somewhere, I just want to address all the issues before resubmitting to Google, again.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 21st September 2018

I just resubmitted to Google Fonts and got:

The server returned a "500 Internal Server Error".

Comment by SymbioticDesign 21st September 2018

Saved for the next resubmission:

Adjusted the small k(s) so that the secondary arm is under x height. Adjusted all of the periods and dots to be the same, adjusted the commas, apostrophes and quotes to all be the same. This version should show more uniformity and compliance with SIL character design directives, especially as I corrected the cedillas and carons that are actually looking more like commas.

Sorry that this update took a while.  I do this in my spare time and I have way too many irons in the fire.

I'm still willing to listen to any criticism, but I would like to get this one accepted (once it is what is expected) because I have a whole font family awaiting further development based on this model.

Thank you!  

P.S.:
It's really late (actually early morning, now), I will add some character sample graphic images, later.

Thanks!
-Doug Peters (@Domainer)

Comment by SymbioticDesign 21st September 2018

Much better! :) I would lower the dots on the is an js, so that they match the diaeresis and other diacritics. You missed some dots in the extended punctuation block. The quadruple prime has a different design the the others. Latin letter 6, lowercase, should be similar or identical to Cyrillic small letter soft sign. Also, you still have the lowercase schwa/reversed e in the uppercase position: the lowercase points are (yes, there are two of them for different languages) 01DD (Latin B) and 0259 (IPA). Your reversed 9 quotes do not reflect the same design as the others. Your swung dash should be much longer, similar to an em dash. The commercial minus is meant to harmonize with the checkmark (same angle, thickness, et cetera)—used in Sweden and other European countries. And . . . your quotes in the dingbats block should be bold. —Namaste

Comment by TCWhite 21st September 2018

@TCWhite...  Does Unicode 201A, the Single Low-9 Quotation Mark, sit at the same level as a comma (making it completely redundant), or up off the baseline a hair?  I should probably try to look it up, but I figure you would know and it would be the same story for all the low hanging quote marks. 

Thanks for your critique!  I forgot about all the other cranies that had characters here and there.  Working on it, now.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd September 2018

@TCWhite...

I think I tackled a lot of the items you addressed.  There may be some issues I have to address...

1) Lookup what a Latin lowercase 6 is & lookup what a Cyrillic small letter soft sign is.

2) Lookup what a schwa is.

3) Find #0259 character.

4) Lookup a swing dash.

5) Lookup a commercial minus.

I think I addressed some of the stray dots and diaeresis.  There were a few stray lowercase letters that didn't have goth cuts on the acsender.  I can't add got cuts to the x, unfortunately.

So, looks like I will have to go study, but I think I will see if it will resubmit or not.  It may take a while for me to get to these last things on the list.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd September 2018

Still a server 500 error...

Here's the text I tried to send so I have it for next time:

The last updated reported a server 500 error, so I am trying again, though I have added a few more improvements.

Last update that failed:
Adjusted the small k(s) so that the secondary arm is under x height. Adjusted all of the periods and dots to be the same, adjusted the commas, apostrophes and quotes to all be the same. This version should show more uniformity and compliance with SIL character design directives, especially as I corrected the cedillas and carons that are actually looking more like commas.

Since then, a fontstruct designer, @TCWhite (on fontsruct) spotted a few more periods, dots, commas, quotes I needed to address and did so.

There were a few stray lowercase letters that didn't have goth cuts on the top acsender.  I can't add got cuts to the x, unfortunately.  That is the issue with the limited choice of bricks we have to build a font (I keep asking for more circles, especially, because the curve of a P, R, S is tighter than what's required for an O, D, C, etc.).

I also adjusted some of the spacing for dingbat characters and the like.

Here is what is left on my list to do...

There may be some issues I have to address...

1) Lookup what a Latin lowercase 6 is & lookup what a Cyrillic small letter soft sign is.  Then fix the issue.

2) Lookup what a schwa is. Then fix the issue.

3) Find #0259 character and fix it.

4) Lookup what a swing dash is and fix it.

5) Lookup what a commercial minus is and fix it.  

Sorry that this update took a while.  I do this in my spare time and I have way too many irons in the fire.

I'm still willing to listen to any criticism, but I would like to get this one accepted (once it is what is expected) because I have a whole font family awaiting further development based on this model.

Thank you! - Doug (@Domainer on GitHub, @SymbioticDesign on FontStruct)

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd September 2018

There were a few blocks in there that were wrong, since I started updating it all.  They were composite bricks that had been replaced with some other arbitrary brick.  It was kind of strange.  I fixed it, but I wonder how they got confused and thought they were supposed to be some other brick, especially when as composites, they were so darn special. 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 22nd September 2018

The top two are in Latin B, with the exception of the lowercase schwa, which is in the IPA block. The swung dash and commercial minus are in extended punctuation, and the checkmark is part of dingbats—you already have it though. :) Your dingbat quotes should be the same as your exclamation marks, that is, bold.

Yes, 201A does sit at the same level as the comma. It is a comma, really. The difference has to do with the semantics of the character in programming—this is why there are multiple characters in Unicode that are identical visually, but behave differently according to how they are used in text/layout.

There are still other dots in the extended punctuation block that should be the same size, such as the dotted cross, et cetera.

Hope that helps? :)

Comment by TCWhite 23rd September 2018

P.S.: I meant general punctuation, not extended. :)

Comment by TCWhite 23rd September 2018

This is all good info, thank you so much, @TCWhite.

There are some dots that are a part of a character that are double as big. 

SIL wants different sized diaeretics, depending upon the 'base' of the character, which we can't do withoput some forethought, and I didn't have that option with this style, but when the dots are making up the characters, I decided to make them bigger. 

I get what you are saying about the bold quotes, now.  I had always thought of them as featured quote signs.  These are the bigger fancy quotes that is pulled out of a blog, or article that are intentionally styled differently from the rest of the font in order to make that snippet of a paragraph or sentance stand out from the rest of the article (usually in much larger italics).  But I will make the design I am using (that same idea) much bolder.  

I will probably get to those things today, I hope.  I am struggling today, though, so I can't promise anything. 

Your commercial minus sign actually looks like a percentage sign with dots instead of o's. 

Thanks for the graphic image to clear that stuff up. 

I have a lot to do today, I know I won't get to everything, but I hope I can get started today. 

I'll wait to do another image of the character sampling, until things are fixed.

Thanks so much, Namaste!

Comment by SymbioticDesign 24th September 2018

The 500 error should hopefully now be gone. Could you try again? Thanks!

Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 24th September 2018

I am having difficulty making the fancy quotes any larger than I did.  If I use quarter circles, then I don't have a curve big enough to act as the tail.  Although now they are using a full sphere block, once again I would need bigger curves to make them appropriate for the font, so I am just leaving it where it is until there are more curve blocks (if ever), because I do want to use this style of the fancy (usually bold) quotes.  

This is all I can really do today, I will have to address any other issues, later, but I will try to resubmit it to Google now, so that we can see if that works.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 26th September 2018
Comment by SymbioticDesign 26th September 2018

Added goth cuts to the horizontal bars of the Z (I don't know how it escaped them until now).  Made a longer schwa dash.  Added goth cuts to the capital Esh.  It looks like I fixed the commercial minus, previously. 

It turns out I take issue that the dots should be the same size when the dots themselves define a character, I think they should be larger and fill out the entire space.  This seems to be inline with the fact that the SIL likes to see diaereses that take their size from the size of the letter base, and I think the letter base of a dot based character should be larger than a diaereses.  This is up for debate, as far as I am concerned, so I am willing to listen to any arguments to the contrary, but leaving the dot based characters as they are for now.

I guess I need to make the capital schwa look like a large reversed small letter e, I'll do that now.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 29th September 2018

UPDATED the submission to Google Fonts.

WebFont issue on Github URL

Comment by SymbioticDesign 29th September 2018

It's not just SIL: The dotted characters are actually punctuation marks that were either placed after a sentence or paragraph, or before one to mark it. They are, technically speaking, reference marks. This is why I make them all the same size.

P.S.: your Thorns are still slightly off on their design. They should be like so: Þ (capital height) and þ (a combined b/p).

Comment by TCWhite 29th September 2018

Reduced the size of the dotted reference marks in the punctuation bank.  Going to look for the Thorns, but I have to get back to work, very soon.  Lots less time to play, these days. 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

Just so you know, everytime I see the Þ (capital thorn), even now as I write this, I see it raised off the base line and the loop of the lobe is uplifted to the right.  PÞpÞbÞB -in every one of these I don't see the capital thorn height reaching the capital height of the other capitals, and it is off the baseline.  Heck, I think the fix I did for that one was wrong, going back in.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

OK, so I extended the ascender and decender (tail) of the Þ, but centered it back up.  I never see the decender reaching the baseline.  Not ever in any characters I have seen.  Not once.  AND, I have never seen the capital thorn's ascender reach the capital character height line, nor have I ever seen the capital thorn reach the tallest lowercase ascender height line.  Not once.  But I made the ascender a little taller and the descender a little lower.  IÞl   Crap.  It's the overshoots, which...  AHRGH.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

OK, optical illusion understood.  I still don't like the þ (lowercase thorn) because the ascender is so much taller than the tail is long, and I always see the lobe & bowl centered, but I guess for this style that's the way it is supposed to be?  I even extended the tail more than it should be (for this style). 

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

Submitted to Google Fonts and got 'The server returned a "500 Internal Server Error".'

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

Saved for when the Google Font Contribution Button works again...

Reduced the size of the dots in the dotted reference characters (in general punctuation).  Reworked the capital Thorn and the small thorn to be more visually accurate.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

This is very cool looking

Comment by JOEY_TOYS_ 10th November 2018

Thank you, @JOEY_TOYS_.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 10th November 2018

Capital Thorn has always looked odd to me—it doesn't balance with the rest of the uppercase, in my opinion. Yours look fine, but I would raise the lowercase to x-height. Check out what I did in Webbing. The remainder of what you've done looks great. :)

Comment by TCWhite 11th November 2018

P.S. Check out my design for Thorn in Gowa or Hjet. (my fonts)

Comment by TCWhite 11th November 2018

OK, I made some adjustments to both Þ & þ (capital Thorn & small thorn).  I always saw the capital Thorn as having a bold stem/ascender.  Now I realize this is another optical illusion, so I reduced its weight, but I left it a tiny bit heavier than other characters because I always liked that about that character and so I'm not abandoning that illusion so easily.  Otherwise, the rest of the adjustments I made I un-did.  As for the small thorn, the lobe is now x-height, but I thought that looked really strange, and so I looked at the way it was, as you say, a p & b in one and how it has, still to me, an uplifted lobe, as opposed to a 'normal' p or b lobe.  This again, may be an optical illusion based on the axis of the bowl, but I am trying to communicate the difference between the form of the capital & the smaller case, and I have no real way to spin the bowl access a few degrees, and wanted that part, the uplifted lobe, to be communicated visually, so I changed-out the connected block for the left top rounded corner square.

@meek hasn't said anything about the Google Fonts submitter working, but I'll try again.  I haven't stopped working on this, I know I have a lot left to do, but between now and into the New Year, I am going to be way too busy on business and personal projects to do anything of any consequence.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 11th November 2018

The server returned a "500 Internal Server Error".

Comment by SymbioticDesign 11th November 2018

Saved for later...

Reduced the size of the dots in the dotted reference characters (in general punctuation).  Reworked the capital Thorn and the small thorn to be more visually accurate.  

I will add a graphic or two later from my "Domainer" account on GitHub.

I'm going to be real busy until into the new year, but I haven't stopped working on this and will finish out the Latin Extended B character set when I can get back to it in 2019.

-Doug Peters
"SymbioticDesign" on Fontstruct

Comment by SymbioticDesign 11th November 2018

@TCWhite... I have a little trouble 'copying' characters from a known font.  I will check out those thorns in your fonts, but by basing my characters on just whatever I see as examples that are not specific allows me some plausible deniability with respect to Copyrights.  That is, the ability to say I didn't copy any specific Copyrighted font where the work and style is under copy protection, endangering me, as an artist by opening myself up to Copyright Infringement (which is honestly hard to do in today's world).  Which is why I prefer selected texts with samples that are generic and used as examples.  Eventually I will get there, check them all out, but I am absolutely careful about not opening myself up to liability in Copyright issues.  I am probably paranoid about it, but since I can't afford a lawyer, I need to be.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 12th November 2018

Still won't submit to Google Fonts...

Internal server 500 Error.

I have gotten no feedback from @meek on this or my last issue with a previous font that I needed restored to an earlier version.  So, I don't know what's up. 

=================================================

Reduced the size of the dots in the dotted reference characters (in general punctuation).  Reworked the capital Thorn and the small thorn to be more visually accurate.  

I also tweaked the upper 'stem' of the 3 and made it less angled and cut the aperture of the lower bit a tiny bit shorter with a shorter shoulder (though I am not sure if I am applying these terms right in the case of a 3).

I will add a graphic or two later from my "Domainer" account on GitHub.

I'm going to be real busy until into the new year, but I haven't stopped working on this and will finish out the Latin Extended B character set when I can get back to it in 2019.

-Doug Peters
"SymbioticDesign" on Fontstruct

Comment by SymbioticDesign 12th November 2018

BTW, @meek, when you pop-up a new tab to submit the font to Google Fonts, I keep using that tab, as I don't realize you opened a new tab in my browser.  It's possible that this is why the double fontstructor window bug is causing issues with block replacement. 

The thing is, I have Fonstruct pinned.  I know where it is in my tabs and can always get to it.  You introduce a new tab and I think I am working in the same old one.  I go to another tab, and come back to a pinned tab.  I wonder what happened to my stuff.  I have 16 pinned tabs.  My web browser is not full screen (nor do I want it to be).  I have 15 other tabs open too, and I only see 2 and a sliver of the the 3rd. 

What I am saying is that the unpinned tab gets hidden, so opening a new tab in someone's web browser is not best practices UI and results in a poor UX. 

Now, maybe you are on vacation, maybe you are working on the issue, or a number of issues, I don't know.  Perhaps it's not my business, but I have been trying to get your attention on a past issue for a month and not hearing anything about this issue (the 500 Server Error submitting to Google Fonts).

Comment by SymbioticDesign 12th November 2018

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